Undesign is our podcast where we discuss the world’s problems and redesign the outlook of our future together. We feature 60-minute conversations with guests who have dedicated themselves to tackling big social challenges. Listen to the episodes below, or subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or Google.

Your Podcast Host

Our Head of Community Practice, Kosta Lucas, is an independent researcher and practitioner in preventing and countering violent extremism, with considerable experience in policy, research and grassroots program development roles. He regularly consults organisations such as Google Australia and the Commonwealth Government in resolving community conflict.


How might we untangle the challenges of today using technology?

In Season One, we speak directly and frankly about the role technology can play in addressing systemic racism, climate change and more.

Technology builders should design with voice in mind to make it natural for the next billion users.

"Voice technology 
is crucial for new internet users as 
it allows them to 
ask for what they want, rather than 
be served what the recommendation is. Voice gives agency.”

Garen Checkley Product Manager, Next Billion Users, Google

Browse other episodes in Season 1


Launched by DrawHistory, Undesign is a collection of conversations tackling big social challenges. With our host Kosta Lucas, we speak directly and frankly about wicked problems with guests from influential global brands to fierce grassroots movements.

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How do we prevent terrorists from exploiting online social media platforms?

On this episode of Undesign, we discuss online extremism and counterspeech with Erin Saltman. Erin is an experienced researcher and practitioner who is the current Director of Programming for the Global Internet Forum to Counter Terrorism (GIFCT). She was also formerly Facebook’s Head of Counterterrorism and Dangerous Organizations Policy for Europe, Middle East and Africa.

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How do we increase people’s ability to make knowledge as free as possible to use, reuse and share without legal restriction? And why does this matter so much?

On this episode of Undesign, we discuss free knowledge and open-source culture with Zack McCune — diving deep in everything that entails, from edit wars to the legacy of former President Trump. Zack is the Director of Brand for Wikipedia and various projects of the Wikimedia Foundation, arguably the most well-known, global mobilization of the free knowledge movement.

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Is it actually possible to make travel and tourism more economically, environmentally and culturally sustainable at the same time?

On this episode of Undesign, we unpack travel and tourism with Edmund Morris. Edmund is a well-travelled and experienced international economic development professional, currently Founder at Equator Analytics and formerly an economist with USAID.

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Given the effect of nationalism on our sense of identity, we revisit the question of whether the nation-state is obsolete and discuss the ways in which we can move towards a cosmopolitan society.

On this episode of Undesign, we dive deeper into nationalism and its impacts on our identity with Farida Fozdar. Farida is a distinguished sociologist with The University of Western Australia who has published over a hundred journal articles, chapters, books and reports on these fundamental questions of how diverse communities (and people) form relationships with one another.

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AVAILABLE NOW (AIRED Tuesday June 29, 2021)

At this point it’s almost become a cliche to comment on the effect that Covid-19 has had on many aspects of our lives, from travel to mental health. But one area with an increase in user activity that is worth talking about is digital activism.

On this episode of Undesign, we are joined by Emmy Suzuki Harris. Emmy is the Asia Regional Director for the Change.org Foundation, the philanthropic initiative of Change.org. We dive into some of the questions that she and her team spend everyday trying to better understand, from what makes a campaign successful to assessing the effectiveness of petitions.

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AVAILABLE NOW (AIRED Tuesday July 6, 2021)

There are many examples of content creators and influencers who say they want to use their platform for good… but what that good actually is, is not always clear.

On this episode of Undesign, we take a slightly different tack. Joining us for a firsthand account of using social media for social good is Nadir Nahdi. Nadir is the founder of BENI, a multi-platform space for a truly multicultural, pluralist, digital community to emerge, as well as a YouTube Creators for Change Ambassador. This episode is a personal, introspective chat where hard truths emerge.

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AVAILABLE NOW (AirED Tuesday July 13, 2021)

When it comes to traditional approaches to empowerment initiatives, particularly of any marginalised and minority groups, we often hear about the importance of “everyone having a seat at the table.” But do we ever really think about what that means?

Talking to us on this episode of Undesign is our guest, Luke Pearson. Luke is a Gamilaraay man who founded IndigenousX, a digital “pass the mic” platform for upcoming Indigenous writers, creatives and thought leaders to take back control over their stories and their voices.

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AVAILABLE NOW (AireD Tuesday July 20, 2021)

It’s been almost a year since our social media feeds were filled with “black tiles” in response to the death of George Floyd as a result of racially-motivated violence.

What did that activism all mean, and what steps can we take to ensure that we don’t just talk about the importance of protesting injustice on the internet, but in the everyday?

Joining us on Undesign’s Season One finale is our guest, Fadzi Whande. Fadzi is currently the Senior Programme Officer (Diversity and Inclusion Adviser) at the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR). She is also the Founding Director of the Whande Group, a consultancy and program development organisation extending this work.

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It can be easy to take for granted that technology up until now has been designed with a very specific type of user in mind. But what about the people who are jumping online for the first time from counties such as India, Indonesia and Nigeria?

Joining Undesign on this special surprise episode to discuss inclusive technology is Garen Checkley, Product Manager at Google’s Next Billion Users initiative. Garen shares plenty of insightful stories on Google’s mission to make technology helpful for everyone, everywhere, from their new research on building voice-first products, to an important report on gender equity online.

This surprise episode was released to celebrate DrawHistory’s sixth birthday, and the enduring role that technology design can play in creating societal change. 

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